With Hamas refusing to disarm, there may be “two Gazas,” with war in one part, Trump’s proposed technocratic government in another, experts tell JI
Abed Rahim Khatib/picture alliance via Getty Images
16 October 2025, Palestinian Territories, Khan Yunis: A truck carrying fuel enters Khan Yunis through the Karem Shalom crossing as part of the ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas.
Following the joy in Israel over the return of the remaining living hostages on Monday and President Donald Trump’s declaration that “the long and painful nightmare is finally over” came the letdown: Hamas, as of Thursday, had returned only nine out of 28 bodies of the deceased hostages and started to execute rivals and reestablish itself in the areas of Gaza from which the IDF withdrew.
While Trump has repeatedly said the war in Gaza is over, when asked by CBS News if that’s the case, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that Israel “agreed to give peace a chance,” and later in the interview said it still needs to “finish the war as speedily as possible.”
The future of Gaza remains unclear, despite Israel agreeing to Trump’s 20-point plan for the region. Hamas only agreed to the immediate steps in the plan: stopping the war, freeing the hostages in exchange for 1,950 prisoners, including those who killed Israelis in terrorist attacks, and Israel withdrawing to a specified line within Gaza.
Trump posted on Truth Social on Wednesday that the plan’s second phase, which entails Hamas’ disarmament and demilitarization of the Gaza Strip, “begins right NOW!!!” Yet, an Israeli official confirmed to Jewish Insider a report that, with Hamas withholding most of the remaining hostages’ bodies, negotiations to continue to the next phase of the plan are on hold.
Disarming Hamas and the demilitarization of Gaza are meant to take place “under the supervision of independent monitors,” but those monitors have yet to be selected and sent to the region. The Peace Board announced — and led — by Trump, with the involvement of former U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair that is meant to oversee Gaza’s administration by Palestinian technocrats has not yet been formed, nor has the temporary International Stabilization Force meant to train Palestinian police and be part of the “long-term internal security solution” for Gaza and Israel.
Meanwhile, Hamas has entered the vacuum and, in recent days, has tried to consolidate its power by killing members of clans that it accused of collaborating with Israel.
On Tuesday, Trump called the clans “gangs that were very bad,” adding that Hamas’ attacks “didn’t bother me much” and that the terror group had his “permission” to proceed; Trump compared Gazan opponents of Hamas to gang members from Venezuela who entered the U.S. illegally.
At the same time, Trump said that Hamas must disarm, threatening U.S. involvement if the group does not lay down its weapons. “They will disarm or we will disarm them,” Trump said. “If they don’t disarm, it’ll happen quickly and perhaps violently, but they will disarm.”
Netanyahu told CBS News that he “hope[s] we can do this peacefully. We’re certainly ready to do so.”
Kobi Michael, a senior researcher at the Misgav Institute for National Security and Zionist Strategy, told the Misgav Mideast Horizons podcast co-hosted by Jewish Insider’s Lahav Harkov this week that although Trump’s plan “has 20 articles, it is not very well-detailed. Actually, it is a framework … [Trump] isn’t very interested in the details. He is very focused on the final outcome, on the vision. He leaves the details for the professionals.”
“If President Trump will lose his focus, determination, decisiveness with regard to the further phases of his own plan — and I mean disarming Hamas, demilitarization of the Gaza Strip, and so on — [Israel] might find [itself] in a stalemate. This, I would say, is the main challenge of the State of Israel — keep President Trump focused,” Michael warned.
Ofer Guterman, a senior researcher at the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University, told JI that Hamas reestablishing itself within the “yellow line” to which the IDF withdrew is “unpleasant but expected,” because “up until now, Israel refused to deal with all the systems we wanted to put in place instead of Hamas.”
“The technocratic administration, international forces, Palestinian police, etc. – these are just headlines with nothing behind them. We need to start building them. Some will only be relevant in weeks or maybe months,” Guterman argued.
Guterman also pointed out that, while the second phase of the deal may go into effect in the coming weeks, it will likely last for years.
“We need to remember that we are still in phase one,” he said. “Not all the hostages are back, and that influences the decision-making in Israel. … Our first, central goal is to bring back most, if not all, or the hostages’ bodies that remain there.”
Former Israeli National Security Advisor Maj.-Gen. (res.) Yaakov Amidror said that Hamas is likely to return most of the bodies to the best of its capability.
“Hamas understands that, without [returning the bodies], it will clearly not be fulfilling its obligation to the Americans and Qatar and other countries, and may find itself in a war in which it doesn’t have its main card, the hostages,” Amidror said in a Jerusalem Press Club briefing.
Michael warned that while countries such as Qatar and Turkey that support the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas “were clever enough to understand … what is important for President Trump is to release the live hostages and declare the end of the war, and when it comes to the other phases, President Trump will be much more tolerant and they will be able to convince him that they need more time and Israel has to make further concessions.”
“Hamas does not intend to dismantle itself … [or] give up its influence and position, not only in the Gaza Strip, but the entire Palestinian arena,” Michael said. “The Qataris and the Turks are interested in keeping Hamas as a relevant player in the Gaza Strip, first of all, as a platform for increasing its influence on the entire Palestinian Authority.”
The priority in Gaza must be removing Hamas’ control over any part of the enclave, including humanitarian or civilian services, Amidror argued.
“The people of Gaza are suffering from the strong hand of Hamas,” he said. “Today, Hamas is killing many Gazans. … We have to find a way to disarm Hamas for them and for Israel.”
Amidror also said that it is “clear that nothing can be done in Gaza, not to rebuild, not to bring in forces that will implement civilian change, if Hamas is still so strong. Hamas cannot attack Israel anymore, but it is the strongest force in Gaza, and in that situation, no one will rebuild Gaza.”
As long as Hamas does not disarm, Guterman said, “Israel must prevent the rehabilitation of the areas of Gaza controlled by Hamas.”
Michael pointed out that Trump’s plan allows Israel and partner countries to proceed with establishing a technocratic administration and International Stability Force in Gaza before Hamas is disarmed.
“If Israel will agree to do that in the southern part, the area between Khan Younis and Rafah, I think there is a high probability for the success of security personnel and the Palestinian Authority,” Michael said. “They will enter the region empty of Hamas, with the presence of the government of technocrats, and everything will be fully coordinated with the IDF. … Begin the reconstruction process there, and continue the war in the north against Hamas, until Hamas is dismantled.”
In such a scenario, Michael posited that residents of Gaza will try to move south to the areas being rebuilt to try to make a better life than in the areas controlled by Hamas.
“Then Hamas will lose its strength, which [comes from] the population, and it will be much easier for the IDF to besiege the areas that Hamas is present in, to dismantle Hamas,” he said.
Guterman thought that Israel implementing the plan in only part of Gaza was the likely scenario, but that progress would halt there and there would be “two Gazas.”
“Hamas will be within the yellow line, trying to grow more powerful as we try to fight it, and Gaza will have a security corridor in over 50% of the territory, making it easier to defend the [Israeli] towns near the border and create a better base for actions against Hamas,” he said.
For there to be an alternative administration in the IDF-controlled areas of Gaza that would undermine Hamas’ legitimacy, run by countries in the region, Israel’s “concession will have to be … committing to a viable path to a two-state solution,” Guterman argued.
The ruling affirmed the constitutionality of legislation passed by Congress to assert U.S. jurisdiction over the PLO and PA
MENAHEM KAHANA/AFP via Getty Images
Shopkeepers, police and fire officers look at the debris at the scene of a suicide bombing near the Sbarro pizzeria on the junction of Jaffa Road and King George Street in Jerusalem.
The Supreme Court ruled unanimously in favor of the victims of Palestinian terrorist groups on Friday in a case regarding the constitutionality of a U.S. law allowing lawsuits against the Palestinian Authority and Palestine Liberation Organization in American courts over payments to terrorists and their families through the “pay-for-slay” program.
The Supreme Court victory in Fuld v. Palestine Liberation Organization is a hard-fought win for the families, and comes following a decades-long series of efforts by American terror victims and their families to sue the Palestinian groups.
Previously, the Second Circuit had repeatedly ruled that legislation passed by Congress to assert U.S. jurisdiction over the PLO and PA, designed to allow victims to sue the groups, was unconstitutional.
Those rulings prompted a back-and-forth between the courts and Congress, which has repeatedly passed legislation designed to address the issues raised by the courts and re-establish a path for terror victims to use the PLO and PA.
The Supreme Court on Friday ruled that the most recent of those bills, the Promoting Security and Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act (PSJVTA), which stated that the PLO and PA would be subject to U.S. jurisdiction if they continued the terror payments or carried out activities in the United States, was constitutional, reversing the Second Circuit’s decision.
In an opinion written by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court ruled that the PSJVTA was reasonable, tying jurisdiction to PLO and PA activities involving the U.S. and sensitive foreign policy matters in which Congress and the executive branch should enjoy broad discretion.
He wrote that the Constitution allows the federal government authority inside and outside the United States, particularly in cases involving U.S. nationals attacked outside U.S. borders.
The case was named for Ari Fuld, who in 2018 was stabbed to death by a Palestinian terrorist whose family subsequently received payments from the PA. Fuld’s wife was one of several family members of terror victims who were party to the suit.
“This is a big deal indeed,” Hillel Fuld, an American Israeli columnist and Ari’s brother, said on X. “Now any American citizen affected by Palestinian terror can sue the Palestinian authority in American courts. Pretty unprecedented! Wow.”
“Ari continues to change the world even after his death,” Fuld continued.
The Supreme Court’s decision should also allow a previous $650 million judgement in the case Sokolow v. Palestine Liberation Organization, which was struck down by the Second Circuit, to move ahead.
Justice Clarence Thomas wrote in a concurring opinion that the court should have gone further in its decision, saying that he is “skeptical” that groups such as the PLO and PA are entitled to “any constitutional rights at all, let alone qualify as ‘person[s]’ for purposes of the Fifth Amendment.” Thomas also cast doubt on the idea that the Fifth Amendment restrains in any way Congress’ authority to expand U.S. jurisdiction beyond U.S. borders.
Justice Neil Gorsuch joined Thomas’s concurrence in part.
“It’s a big win for the plaintiffs,” Mark Pinkert, an attorney for Holtzman Vogel who filed an amicus brief on behalf of a slew of Jewish organizations, told Jewish Insider. “It’s a very big win for victims of terrorism. It’s a really good day.”
He said the case should bring to an end the long-running battle over whether U.S. courts have jurisdiction in these cases.
“For the Sokolow plaintiffs, who already got a jury award, that should be it, and that should allow them to have that jury award reinstated,” Pinkert continued. “Now there’s questions about how they collect on it, but as far as having a judgment in hand that says, ‘You owe me $600 million,’ it should be the nail in the coffin.”
The Fuld case will still need to proceed to trial, but he said it’s “not a stretch to say the Fuld plaintiffs” will be able to successfully argue their case, given the results in Sokolow.
Pinkert explained that in their decision, the justices largely declined to address broader constitutional questions about the boundaries of the Fifth Amendment raised during oral arguments, only declaring that this case did not violate it.
Munther Isaac justified Oct. 7 attack and is on the board of an organization calling Judaism a ‘dead letter”
MARCUS YAM / LOS ANGELES TIMES
Rev. Munther Isaac poses for a portrait next to a Christmas nativity scene with a the symbolic Baby Jesus in a manger of rubble and destruction to reflect the reality of Palestinian children living and being born today, at the Evangelical Lutheran Christmas Church in Bethlehem, West Bank , Thursday, Dec. 14, 2023.
When Tucker Carlson said he wanted to know how the government of Israel treats Christians, he opted against interviewing Israeli Christians, choosing instead to speak to a Palestinian Christian pastor who founded an anti-Israel organization and justified Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel.
Munther Isaac, the pastor featured in a 40-minute interview with Carlson that aired on X on Tuesday, gave a sermon on Oct. 8, 2023, in which he said the attack — a day prior — in which 1,200 Israelis were slaughtered by Hamas was a logical outcome.
“What is happening is an embodiment of the injustice that has befallen us as Palestinians from the Nakba until now,” Isaac said in the sermon, using the Arabic word for “catastrophe,” that Palestinians use to mark the creation of Israel in 1948 and displacement of some 750,000 Palestinians. “Frankly, anyone following the events was not surprised by what happened yesterday… One of the scenes that left an impression on my mind yesterday, and there are many scenes, is the scene of the Israeli youth who were celebrating a concert in the open air [the Nova music festival] just outside the borders of Gaza, and how they escaped. What a great contradiction, between the besieged poor on the one hand, and the wealthy people celebrating as if there was nothing behind the wall. Gaza exposes the hypocrisy of the world.”
On Christmas Eve last year, Isaac, the pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Christmas Church in Bethlehem, in the West Bank, delivered a sermon in which he said that “if Jesus were to be born today, he would be born under the rubble in Gaza.” Jesus, who was Jewish and not Palestinian, a term that was only officially used for the region by the Romans a century later, was born in Bethlehem, which is near Jerusalem and not where the war is currently taking place. Bethlehem is currently under Israeli military control, but civilian matters – such as official religious tolerance – in the city are the responsibility of the Palestinian Authority.
Isaac is a board member of Kairos Palestine, an organization launched in 2009 whose founding document makes antisemitic statements, such as engaging in replacement theology to deny the Jewish people’s historic connection to Israel. The Kairos Document calls the Torah a “dead letter…used as a weapon in our present history in order to deprive us of our rights in our own land.” The document also states that “Christian love invites us to resist,” and describes the First Intifada, a campaign of attacks on Israelis as a “peaceful struggle.” The Kairos home page currently describes the war in Gaza as a genocide, and the organization supports boycotts against Israel.
Isaac is also the director of the Bethlehem Bible College’s biannual “Christ at the Checkpoint” annual conferences, meant to promote Palestinian nationalism among Christian leaders, or as they put it “challenge evangelicals to take responsibility to help resolve the conflicts in Israel-Palestine by engaging with the teaching of Jesus.” Its manifesto states that “the occupation is the core issue of the conflict.” While the conference’s manifesto states that it opposes antisemitism and delegitimization of Israel, it also describes current Israeli policy as “discrimination or privileges based on ethnicity” stemming from “worldviews that promote divine national entitlement or exceptionalism.”
Among the antisemitic statements made at the conference over the years, collected by NGO Monitor, an organization that researches the activities and funding of nonprofits relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict, are: “If God wanted the Jews to have the land…I didn’t want that God anymore!” “If you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu [through a DNA test], you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” “Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar,” as opposed to Abraham and Sarah. The final quote is from Stephen Sizer, a British pastor who has engaged in Holocaust denial and blaming Israel for 9/11.
Rev. Johnnie Moore, president of the Congress of Christian Leaders, said that “those of us who track these things know that Munther Isaac has long been the high priest of antisemitic Christianity; sadly, he spreads his hate from the city of Jesus’ birth.”
“Since Oct. 7,” Moore added, “Isaac seems to have graduated from being an anti-Zionist Lutheran preacher to a terror sympathizer. There’s really just no other way to describe him.”
Jonathan Elkhoury, a Christian Lebanese refugee granted Israeli citizenship, said he was “appalled and ashamed” at Carlson’s choice to invite Isaac onto his show, preferring “rhetoric of lies and misinformation about Israel or its treatment of minorities” rather than “a voice that speaks about Christian life in the Holy Land.”
“Tucker Carlson should have taken his platform more seriously, and not invite political activists, in the disguise of a religious robe, to support the ongoing dehumanization of Israelis and the denial of the right of Israel to exist,” he said.
In his introduction to the interview with Isaac, Carlson said that Christians suffer disproportionately in wars in which the U.S. supplies weapons.
However, the Christian population in the West Bank and Gaza declined significantly in recent decades since coming under Palestinian control, amid pressure from the PA and attempts to Islamize the city, in addition to difficulties relating to Israel’s security control of the area experienced by Palestinians regardless of religion.
Elkhoury said that when Israel had control over Bethlehem, the city had a population that was over 60% Christian. After the 1993 Oslo Accords, which gave the PA control of the city, the number of Christians has since declined to about 12%.
There were 3,000 Christians in Gaza when Israel withdrew from the coastal enclave in 2005, a number that fell to about 1,100 as of last year, he said.
“Hamas prevented Christians [from] celebrat[ing] their holidays freely under its control since taking power, and Christians under the PA have faced many ongoing threats and attacks,” Elkhoury said. “The last one of them was an attack on the Jacob’s Well monastery in Nablus by a Palestinian mob last January.”
Israel’s Christian community, which is about 2% of the country’s population, has been rising steadily for the past few years, and is the only growing Christian population in the Middle East. Arab Christians are also the most educated population group in Israel, with a higher percentage of university graduates than Jewish or Muslim Israelis.
Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) said Carlson’s take on Israel’s treatment of Christians is “nonsense,” calling the former Fox News host “a cowardly, know-nothing elitist who is full of shit.”
“Tucker’s MO is simple: defend America’s enemies and attack America’s allies,” Crenshaw wrote on X. “There isn’t an objective bone left in that washed up news host’s body. Mindless contrarianism is his guiding principle…He uses his platform to sow doubt and paranoia and false narratives.”
































































